HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
MINUTES
November 13, 2007
APPROVED AS AMENDED:
1/16/08 jrl___
AGENDA: CONT. HEARING FOR OBAID KHAN, 8 Central Square,
#114-173
MEET NEW LAND USE OFFICER: SHERYL MONTAGUE
ATTENDING: Clay Dingman (Chairman), Larry Douglas (Vice Chairman), Rick
Alpers (Sel. Rep.), Dorcas Gordon, Mark Greenwood, Sandra Heaney
ABSENT: Robin Fitzgerald (Alternate – excused)
OTHER: Sheryl Montague, Land Use Officer, Brooke Salom, Steve Favorite
(Selectman)
The meeting opened at 7:00 p.m.
MINUTES OF OCTOBER 9, 2007: The following amendments and clarifications were made: Page 1, under MINUTES, 2nd paragraph, 1st line, replace “Healey” with “Heaney”. Under HEARING, 3rd line from the bottom, replace “Brooke” with “Salom”.
Page 2, under PCC, 1st line, replace “esthetic” with “aesthetic”. Line 4, 1st word, change “She” to “The applicant”. 5th line, add “feet” after “16 x 1 ½”. Last paragraph, 3rd line from the bottom, replace “complimentary” with “complementary”. Page 4, under HISTORIC DISTRICT SIGNS, 1st line after “Goodrum” replace “can” with “has not given permission to” and 2nd line, after “square ones” add “on poles set along the street”. Under NEW BUSINESS, last line, close the parenthesis.
D. Gordon made a motion, second by S. Heaney, to accept the minutes as amended and clarified. The motion carried with one abstention.
INTRODUCTION OF SHERYL MONTAGUE:
As the applicant for the hearing had not yet arrived, the new Land Use Officer was introduced. Ms. Montague stated that she will be full-time (9:00 to 4:00) on Tuesdays and Thursdays and afternoons (noon to 4:00) the rest of the weekdays.
Mr. Dingman explained that the most of the HDC (Historic District Commission) hearings are on signage. A lot of the people do not even know that they need to come in to the Commission, he added. 50% of the signs in the district are out of compliance. Help is needed for guidance and education. People have been complaining about the clutter of signs and there are several temporary signs which are still up. Ms. Gordon added that there are some signs that are pre-HDC. Mr. Nebesnik, previous Land Use Officer, had a big back-log.
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SHERYL MONTAGUE continued:
Ms. Montague stated that she has found no list of non-compliance for the district. Mr. Dingman said that it was Mr. Nebesnik’s goal to check the compliance of all hearings held within the past year. Mr. Dingman would like to find a way to get people to voluntarily be compliant. Ms. Montague felt that a list of signs not in compliance would be a start and a letter about non-compliance could be sent. Mr. Dingman added that it would be good if the applicants came in for a PCC (Preliminary Conceptual Consultation) first so as to be better prepared at their hearings. Mr. Dingman would be happy to work with Ms. Montague on this. Ms. Montague felt that a checklist would also help. Mr. Dingman stated that the HDC looks at what a sign is made of, its looks, and then where it is to be located. Ms. Montague asked about lettering. Mr. Dingman answered that they look at legibility and that it is not contemporary. When concern was expressed about applicants being informed when Ms. Montague is out, she stated that Angela Mahoney, Assistant Assessor, is pretty good about handling this. Mr. Alpers felt that the applicants should be sent to the HDC secretary to set up a PCC.
Mr. Dingman further explained that the applicant can put up a temporary sign after they have begun the application process.
Ms. Salom stated that, as a business owner, the whole process is confusing and the applicants should come in for a PCC. Ms. Gordon felt that Ms. Montague’s position will help with communication. Mr. Greenwood stated that, even after talking with some of the businesses downtown, they come in crying that they were not told about things. They seem to be trying to get away with things. Mr. Douglas asked about informing the Real Estate people. Mr. Alpers stated that the Selectmen have talked about putting a package together that could be mailed out. If the commission wants it can put something together and get it to Krystal Alpers, Adm. Sec. to Selectmen & Town Manager, who can then get it distributed. Ms. Heaney stated that the package is on her “to-do” list.
Mr. Dingman thought that a walk-through with the Land Use Officer plus addressing the sandwich billboards in the district would do a lot to straighten things out.
HEARING FOR OBAID KHAN/BROOKE SALOM
After looking further at the materials included with the application, S. Heaney made a MOTION, second by D. Gordon, to ACCEPT THE APPLICATION AS COMPLETE. The motion CARRIED.
The drawing of the signs was passed around. Ms. Salom stated that the signs are lighted and lights are pre-existing. The dimensions are rounded. There are pre-existing holes/anchors and she would rather use them for her Bakery sign. She has no clue about the placement in inches. There is a new awning that has been put up by the owners of the building. The Pizza sign is 16’ long and will be on the right side of the building. It is above the ledge but below the windows. There is about 2’ from the bottom of the ledge to the top of the awning, she added. The sign is about 1 ½” tall.
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KHAN/SALOM HEARING continued:
Mr. Dingman stated that one concern of the HDC is not to cover architectural details or the design of the building. He agrees that the Pizza sign should be above the ledge and below the lintel of the windows. Ms. Gordon pointed out that, in the old pictures that the HDC has, the Cavis sign was directly over the lintel. A discussion followed.
Ms. Salom mentioned liking the gooseneck lighting that Ms. Mancuso (Taste of Italy) has and asked if she could put the same up. Mr. Dingman explained that the HDC has purview over the appearance of lighting fixtures in the Historic District but the lighting itself actually comes under the Planning Board’s jurisdiction. If the applicant decides to change the lighting that is in place, they need to see both Planning and HDC; a joint meeting could be scheduled.
Mr. Dingman addressed the change of color to the Pizza sign. The background is still black but the lettering has changed from solid gold to a graduated fill (silver to gold). Mr. Dingman would like the original plan. Ms. Salom stated that she would rather not as the graduated fill will bring more attention.
Mr. Dingman asked if the bakery sign will be above the awning and was told that it would. Mr. Dingman asked if the awning would obscure it. Ms. Salom said that it is 18” above; to the lower part of the window. The awning is fixed and the owners refused to keep it off when the applicants asked. Ms. Gordon felt that the applicant needs to make the sign shorter. Mr. Douglas suggested it be cut at an angle to the awning. Ms. Salom thought that cutting and making shorter might work.
Ms. Heaney asked about the font. Mr. Dingman stressed that the font needs to be exactly like that shown to the commission. Ms. Salom stated that what was submitted is an exact picture of what the sign maker is to do. Ms. Gordon said that she is comfortable with the font in the picture and Ms. Heaney agreed. Mr. Dingman agreed, also.
Mr. Dingman continued by saying that they need to address the graduated fill vs. solid gold issue. Graduated fill letter coloring is not something that was done until the 1990’s with the use of computers. His recommendation is not to use this type. Ms. Salom felt that nobody uses the old ways now. It is not necessarily unattractive, she added. Mr. Dingman asked if the sample submitted is an exact copy as that is what we need so that the Land Use Officer can check for compliance. Ms. Gordon stated that, at the previous meeting, Ms. Salom told the commission that it was to be gold lettering on black. Mr. Alpers stated that the graduated fill is not historic and that Ms. Salom’s service and product is what will draw customers in. Mr. Dingman said that the applicants can do a temporary sign until this case is complete.
Ms. Heaney asked if the material is wood. Ms. Salom said that it is cut vinyl letters on wood and painted over. Ms. Gordon added that the foil/graduated fill is shiny. A discussion followed as to the colors to use. Ms. Salom pointed out that Ms. Mancuso’s sign wasn’t historical.
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KHAN/SALOM HEARING continued:
Mr. Dingman thought that the current size of the second sign could be cut down to ½ the vertical size. Ms. Salom wished to cut down to 1/3 and she would use one of the design options supplied by the commission. Ms. Heaney thought that ½ the size would do. Ms. Salom added that it would be black with gold lettering. She continued to say that she is dealing with two people who do not understand our culture and this is going to be hard to explain to them. Ms. Salom then stated that their sign has already been made and they want to put it up tomorrow. Mr. Dingman stated that that is too bad but whatever sign is put up must conform to what is approved at public hearing. Ms. Salom then invited Mr. Dingman to talk to them. She said that she is willing to paint gold over the letters but they will not. Mr. Alpers stated that the commission will be meeting the second Tues. of Dec. and they can come in and talk with us. Mr. Dingman added that the commission has bent over backwards to help as much as possible. Ms. Salom asked if what the commission wants is either solid gold or solid silver lettering instead of the graduated fill and she was told that this is true.
Mr. Dingman stated that the Certificate of Approval (COA) will have the specific directions on it. Copies will be given to Ms. Salom, Ms. Montague, and the HDC secretary. They will have 60 days to put up a permanent sign and can have an interim sign in the meantime.
Conditions of Approval were then set:
PIZZA SIGN: To be no more that 18” tall and 16’ wide. It will span from the top of the awning (not touching) to the bottom of the lintel above (not obscuring the lintel). The lettering will say “Neighborhood Pizza & Bakery” with type face consistent with that submitted. It will consist of vinyl letters attached to wood. The lettering is to be solid silver or gold. The sign shall be centered over the awning.
BAKERY SIGN: Use the existing hardware at the left of the awning. The sign is to be no more than 3 ½’ wide x 2 ¼’ tall. The design is Option #1 of two supplied by the commission as a design example. The sign to be modified to fit. It will be gold letters on black and vinyl on wood.
S. Heaney made a MOTION, second by L. Douglas, to APPROVE THE APPLICATION OF OBAID KHAN/BROOKE SALOM WITH THESE CONDITIONS. The motion CARRIED.
Mr. Dingman again cautioned that the lighting is not under the purview of the HDC and they can use what is there. Any change will mean they must go to the Planning Board and can hold a joint hearing with them and the HDC. Ms. Salom was thanked for coming in. Mr. Dingman promised to do the COA copies tomorrow before he leaves on his trip.
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DISCUSSION OF INTERIM SIGNS: When asked what the difference is, Mr. Dingman stated that an interim sign is of light material or canvas and can be put up while going through the process for a permanent sign.
Mr. Favorite asked why Joe’s restaurant sign existed for over a year. Mr. Dingman stated that Joe received a COA for an entirely different sign and put up the unapproved sign. There has been no enforcement. Mr. Favorite stated that he has taken down both signs now. The commission felt that the owner of the building should have been notified.
Mr. Douglas asked what is going in to the store beside Jodie’s. Mr. Favorite answered that it is to be a Health Store and the new sign is to go in the old area. Mr. Dingman felt that they need to come to the HDC. A discussion ensued.
Mr. Dingman stated that the State Supreme Court has just ruled on signage and specifically on electric signs. The towns have the right and responsibility of overseeing signage aesthetics. He then asked what Ms. Montague needs in order to enforce what is allowed.
Ms. Montague felt that listening this evening is a help and then the walk around the district with the Chairman will add to this. Also, sending out the packet information.
Mr. Dingman told Ms. Montague that she will get a copy of the Certificate of Approval with all of the conditions.
COMMUNICATIONS:
Plymouth State University notice – M/A related
Volunteer Night reminder (11/15, 6:00-8:00). Mr. Dingman, Ms. Heaney and Mr. Douglas will not be able to attend but appreciated the invitation by the Selectmen.
OTHER COMMENTS:
Mr. Dingman thanked the Selectmen, through Mr. Alpers, for inviting the Boards in to speak with them this year. A discussion followed about the great job the Capital Improvements Program committee had done. Mr. Dingman added his appreciation for the HDC and the Commission included Mr. Dingman, as well.
Mr. Dingman did not believe that the commission needed to amend the ordinance at this time and added that it is late in the process, as well, given that the town meeting is just a few months away.
With no other business, S. Heaney made a motion, second by M. Greenwood, to adjourn at 9:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Jan Laferriere, secretary